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shall be brought to believe that the charge is not true。 I have
asked Judge Douglas's attention to certain matters of fact tending to
prove the charge of a conspiracy to nationalize slavery； and he says
he convinces me that this is all untrue because Buchanan was not in
the country at that time； and because the Dred Scott case had not
then got into the Supreme Court； and he says that I say the
Democratic owners of Dred Scott got up the case。 I never did say
that I defy Judge Douglas to show that I ever said so； for I never
uttered it。 ＇One of Mr。 Douglas's reporters gesticulated
affirmatively at Mr。 Lincoln。＇ I don't care if your hireling does say
I did； I tell you myself that I never said the 〃Democratic〃 owners of
Dred Scott got up the case。 I have never pretended to know whether
Dred Scott's owners were Democrats； or Abolitionists； or Freesoilers
or Border Ruffians。 I have said that there is evidence about the
case tending to show that it was a made…up case； for the purpose of
getting that decision。 I have said that that evidence was very
strong in the fact that when Dred Scott was declared to be a slave；
the owner of him made him free； showing that he had had the case
tried and the question settled for such use as could be made of that
decision； he cared nothing about the property thus declared to be his
by that decision。 But my time is out； and I can say no more。
LAST JOINT DEBATE；
AT ALTON； OCTOBER 15； 1858
Mr。 LINCOLN'S REPLY
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN：I have been somewhat； in my own mind；
complimented by a large portion of Judge Douglas's speech；I mean
that portion which he devotes to the controversy between himself and
the present Administration。 This is the seventh time Judge Douglas
and myself have met in these joint discussions； and he has been
gradually improving in regard to his war with the Administration。 At
Quincy； day before yesterday； he was a little more severe upon the
Administration than I had heard him upon any occasion； and I took
pains to compliment him for it。 I then told him to give it to them
with all the power he had； and as some of them were present； I told
them I would be very much obliged if they would give it to him in
about the same way。 I take it he has now vastly improved upon the
attack he made then upon the Administration。 I flatter myself he has
really taken my advice on this subject。 All I can say now is to
re…commend to him and to them what I then commended；to prosecute
the war against one another in the most vigorous manner。 I say to
them again： 〃Go it； husband！Go it； bear！〃
There is one other thing I will mention before I leave this branch of
the discussion；although I do not consider it much of my business；
anyway。 I refer to that part of the Judge's remarks where he
undertakes to involve Mr。 Buchanan in an inconsistency。 He reads
something from Mr。 Buchanan； from which he undertakes to involve him
in an inconsistency； and he gets something of a cheer for having done
so。 I would only remind the Judge that while he is very valiantly
fighting for the Nebraska Bill and the repeal of the Missouri
Compromise； it has been but a little while since he was the valiant
advocate of the Missouri Compromise。 I want to know if Buchanan has
not as much right to be inconsistent as Douglas has？ Has Douglas the
exclusive right； in this country； of being on all sides of all
questions？ Is nobody allowed that high privilege but himself？ Is he
to have an entire monopoly on that subject？
So far as Judge Douglas addressed his speech to me； or so far as it
was about me； it is my business to pay some attention to it。 I have
heard the Judge state two or three times what he has stated to…day；
that in a speech which I made at Springfield； Illinois； I had in a
very especial manner complained that the Supreme Court in the Dred
Scott case had decided that a negro could never be a citizen of the
United States。 I have omitted by some accident heretofore to analyze
this statement； and it is required of me to notice it now。 In point
of fact it is untrue。 I never have complained especially of the Dred
Scott decision because it held that a negro could not be a citizen；
and the Judge is always wrong when he says I ever did so complain of
it。 I have the speech here； and I will thank him or any of his
friends to show where I said that a negro should be a citizen； and
complained especially of the Dred Scott decision because it declared
he could not be one。 I have done no such thing； and Judge Douglas；
so persistently insisting that I have done so； has strongly impressed
me with the belief of a predetermination on his part to misrepresent
me。 He could not get his foundation for insisting that I was in
favor of this negro equality anywhere else as well as he could by
assuming that untrue proposition。 Let me tell this audience what is
true in regard to that matter； and the means by which they may
correct me if I do not tell them truly is by a recurrence to the
speech itself。 I spoke of the Dred Scott decision in my Springfield
speech； and I was then endeavoring to prove that the Dred Scott
decision was a portion of a system or scheme to make slavery national
in this country。 I pointed out what things had been decided by the
court。 I mentioned as a fact that they had decided that a negro
could not be a citizen； that they had done so； as I supposed； to
deprive the negro； under all circumstances； of the remotest
possibility of ever becoming a citizen and claiming the rights of a
citizen of the United States under a certain clause of the
Constitution。 I stated that； without making any complaint of it at
all。 I then went on and stated the other points decided in the case；
namely； that the bringing of a negro into the State of Illinois and
holding him in slavery for two years here was a matter in regard to
which they would not decide whether it would make him free or not；
that they decided the further point that taking him into a United
States Territory where slavery was prohibited by Act of Congress did
not make him free； because that Act of Congress； as they held； was
unconstitutional。 I mentioned these three things as making up the
points decided in that case。 I mentioned them in a lump； taken in
connection with the introduction of the Nebraska Bill； and the
amendment of Chase； offered at the time； declaratory of the right of
the people of the Territories to exclude slavery； which was voted
down by the friends of the bill。 I mentioned all these things
together； as evidence tending to prove a combination and conspiracy
to make the institution of slavery national。 In that connection and
in that way I mentioned the decision on the point that a negro could
not be a citizen； and in no other connection。
Out of this Judge Douglas builds up his beautiful fabrication of my
purpose to introduce a perfect social and political equality between
the white and black races。 His assertion that I made an 〃especial
objection〃 （that is his exact language） to the decision on this
account is untrue in point of fact。
Now； while I am upon this subject； and as Henry Clay has been alluded
to； I desire to place myself； in connection with Mr。 Clay； as nearly
right before this people as may be。 I am quite aware what the
Judge's object is here by all these allusions。 He knows that we are
before an audience having strong sympathies southward； by
relationship； place of birth； and so on。 He desires to place me in
an extremely Abolition attitude。 He read upon a former occasion； and
alludes； without reading； to…day to a portion of a speech which I
delivered in Chicago。 In his quotations from that speech； as he has
made them upon former occasions； the extracts were taken in such a
way as； I suppose； brings them within the definition of what is
called garbling； taking portions of a speech which； when taken by
themselves； do not present the entire sense of the speaker as
expressed at the time。 I propose； therefore； out of that same
speech； to show how one portion of it which he skipped over （taking
an extract before and an extract after） will give a different idea；
and the true idea I intended to convey。 It will take me some little
time to read it； but I believe I will occupy the time that way。
You have heard him frequently allude to my controversy with him in
regard to the Declaration of Independence。 I confess that I have had
a struggle with Judge Douglas on that matter； and I will try briefly
to place myself right in regard to it on this occasion。 I saidand
it is between the extracts Judge Douglas has taken from this speech；
and put in his published speeches：
〃It may be argued that there are certain conditions that make
necessities and impose them upon us； and to the extent that a
necessity is imposed upon a man he must submit to it。 I think that
was the condition in which we found our